Epstein's (planned) New Zealand trip and Otago Uni institute
Jeffery Epstein, and his associate Lawrence Krauss's obsession with New Zealand
Celebrity Canadian-American scientist (and Free Speech Union of Canada member) Lawrence Krauss, later disgraced in 2018 during #MeToo, was in talks with Jeffery Epstein to bring him to New Zealand in 2010, and to start up an academic institute in partnership with the University of Otago in 2012. While both plans fell through, it reveals how people on Epstein’s outer circle interacted with him, Epstein’s previously unknown planned (but cancelled) trip to Aotearoa, and a new episode in the “bolthole” New Zealand saga.
As per the latest “Epstein files” release, a much wider range of emails and messages from the late “financier” (and human trafficker) have been released. Lawrence Krauss was one of Epstein’s frequent communicators, mentioned over 5,000 times and remaining in touch until his arrest and death in 2019. Krauss got his physics Ph.D. from MIT in 1982, and by the mid-2000s had become a prominent theoretical physicist, cosmologist, author, and public speaker. He wrote pop-science books with titles like “The Physics of Star Trek” and “Atom: An Odyssey from the Big Bang to Life on Earth...and Beyond”, editorials in the New York Times, and often spoke at conferences or made media appearances on scientific issues.
In 2006, Krauss helped Jeffery Epstein organise a conference on gravity on St. Thomas in the U.S. Virgin Islands, the most populous island and the one closest to Little St. James. Krauss was able to help invite 20 or so internationally renowned physicists to the conference, including Stephen Hawking, funded by the Epstein-ran Edge Foundation.
In 2008, Epstein further cemented their relationship by helping Krauss set up The Origins Project, a Krauss-chaired initiative at Arizona State University “created to explore humankind’s most fundamental questions about our origins.” Epstein put $250,000 USD towards the project, and would later be invited to the annual events put on by Origins and continued to fund related costs.
Soon after founding Origins, Krauss began visiting New Zealand for speaking tours and trips. He emailed Epstein, Epstein associate and maths professor Martin Nowak, and a redacted person in 2009 about being “in an airline lounge in new Zealand on my way to Sydney”, lining up with an appearance on RNZ’s Nine to Noon in March 2009.
On 10 March 2010, Krauss emails Epstein about Origins and Epstein paying him to “consult” on quantum computing and other issues, writing about “leaving for new zealand tomorrow..”. He adds that it’s “been a bad week actually.. lots of trauma on home front etc..” (Krauss was married to his first wife Katherine Kelley at the time, officially divorcing in 2012). On this New Zealand trip, Krauss spoke at the University of Otago among other venues, including giving an interview to the Otago Daily Times on how people should listen to their “inner scientist” to respond to misinformation.
On 22 March, Epstein emails “where have you gone?”. Krauss responds:
I am still in New Zealand.. flying back later today.. interesting.. I was just going to email you.. (a) to fill you in on NZ.. and (b) to see about talking.. and (c) to say the president of the university’s rep. just emailed me to say that he will juggle his schedule to see you in early April or end of march if you let me know when a good time for you to visit is. will call when I get back in US.. probably tomorrow..
On 30 March, Epstein’s assistant Lesley Groff messages Epstein: “Emailed Lawrence Krauss to please call you at the PB (Palm Beach) house today.” At some point between the last email, plans were made to travel to New Zealand, as the next email on 31 March reads:
Jeffrey.. I am looking into my fall travel and I don’t know if you were serious about maybe taking a few days to go to new zealand.. There is a cosmology meeting in Tokyo end of sept that I wouldn’t go to otherwise but if you wanted to attend it for a day we could fly there for a day, listen to some lectures (maybe one by me), then go on to NZ for some walking.. or alternatively go to NZ oct 11 or so ( I would be in LA and could meet you there) and then swing by australia and pick up [REDACTED] (Nancy Dahl-Tacconi) to return to US as she and I will be going to FLA then before heading on to halloween elsewhere.. I only mention these things because you indicated you might want to do something and I was thinking of alternatives.. no problem if a no go.
Krauss seemed smitten with New Zealand, as many Americans have become, and wanted to give Epstein the bug. He also asked if he could host an Origins meeting for scientific advisors “in St. Thomas ... flying out the 12-14 members.. putting them up at ritz, or something, and having meetings either there or at your island?” Epstein replies: “yes, date works”, with Krauss replying “Great will take it as a yes on all counts. :)”. Krauss mentions that he’ll be in NYC soon and they organise a call for the day after. On 1 June, Epstein receives an email from Lesley Groff: “Lawrence Krauss will meet you for breakfast at 10am on Thurs (3 June). at the house.”
On 3 June, Krauss writes:
thanks for the two lunches, and I am very excited about going to New Zealand etc.. (will work out a proposed schedule, and I am assuming it is definite, as otherwise flights would have to be purchased well in advance). It was great to see you...will call you on the weekend..
2 weeks later, on 17 June, Krauss emails trying to confirm the October trip to New Zealand:
Hi.. back in Phoenix after grueling week.. the movers came on Tues.. and I flew back last night.. now I am moved out officially I guess, and am trying to move forward.. 1. Bitter discussions at the end indicate it is getting important to try and get finances straight.. I will look at your form and probably contact a lawyer soon.. 2. have begun investigating trip in Oct.. I suggest general outline as follows: Oct 13, you arrive in Phoenix for the day.. we could then leave late on the 13th if you want, arriving in New Zealand early morning of the 15th.. I am going to try and contact people there to arrange 3 interesting days of talking, and viewing.. then fly to Australia on the 18th to pick up Nancy (and if you want a short visit fine), otherwise we leave after that, arriving in FLA on the 19th.. We will either exit at Orlando, or we will catch a commercial flight to there (or drive), from Palm Beach. Sound good?
Krauss seems to just have begun his divorce process with Kelley, and to psychoanalyse, probably looking for greener pastures. Is the university president he mentioned trying to get Epstein to meet with back in March 2010 while in New Zealand1 the University of Otago president, where he gave two lectures the same month? The Nancy he mentions picking up in Australia is Nancy Dahl-Tacconi, a colleague who he would later marry in 2014.
Sadly for Krauss, Epstein replies: “new zealand trip is off.. I have to be in dubai duing that time.. Lets talk over the weekend. regarding your work for the foundation.” Krauss replies: “Will talk over the weekend... Sad to hear about NZ, and even sadder to hear that there is no time to even go with you to pick up nancy afterwards... I was tempted to suggest that I fly to Dubai on my own just for the opportunity of doing the latter with you.” Sadly for Krauss, Epstein blew him off.
Epstein was still funding Krauss’s endeavours however, sending him $100,000 USD to fund two Origins events (and Stephen Hawking’s private jet fee) in November 2010. They stayed in touch, with Krauss skyping Epstein in 2011 about meeting in Europe:
I think i wil just meet you in zurich on the 30. th.. I do not want to spoil your spa trip and could not stand to see your dark energy in bright light
In the same year, Krauss began receiving scrutiny for his relationship with Epstein. In April 2011, he was quoted by the Daily Beast saying “As a scientist I always judge things on empirical evidence and [Epstein] always has women ages 19 to 23 around him, but I’ve never seen anything else, so as a scientist, my presumption is that whatever the problems were I would believe him over other people.” He later commented on a blog “I remain skeptical, and I support a man whose character I believe I know...If you want to condemn me for that, so be it.” According to an email from a BuzzFeed News reporter in 2017, public allegations against Krauss began coming out in 2013, with a list of incidents dating back to 2006.
In May 2012, Krauss emails Epstein:
am off to new zealand for a week.. just returned from DC getting my big prize.. maybe we can talk when I get back.. in NYC twice in next 6 weeks.. btw my publishers wanted to send woody allen a copy of the new book with a note from me but they don’t have his address.. probably he wouldn’t want you to give it out to me.. but if I had them send it to you, could you forward it to him?
Epstein replies confirming a meeting and sends an address for Woody Allen. Krauss replies “Thank you... :) Just landed in auckland.. staying at marvelous hotel.. want to take you to new zealand sometime.” Krauss made multiple speaking appearances on this trip, including at the Auckland Writers Festival and the University of Auckland.
On 24 May, after getting back from New Zealand, Krauss writes to a PA for Epstein saying: “Let’s do Friday lunch and sat dinner?” The PA confirms, and says “Jeffrey wanted you to talk science with [Woody Allen]”, who would be joining the two for a meal. A few weeks later on 6 June, Krauss sends Epstein a simple email with the subject line “new zealand”:
any ideas on how I can spend 6 months there a year? Wanna consider an institute?
No response from Epstein, but it seems that Krauss (with Nancy in tow) was looking for an escape plan outside of the United States.
On 19 October, Krauss emails again:
back in the US.. can we talk? I need some help.. re New Zealand.. and want to talk to you about it and other things.. Are you coming to Origins of Deception event this weekend in Tempe?
Epstein replies:
no i had no notice,, none,, i am in paris,
Krauss asks again when Epstein can talk, then sends another email:
Hi Jeffrey.. You saved my life once, and I may need a different sort of life-saving.. but one that I want to be win-win... I would like to talk sometime.
Epstein replies:
what can i do to help.. if it is to ask woody allen for more favors . i must decline.
Krauss replies:
:) nothing to do with Woody... and unfortunately you are out of the country or I could introduce you to cameron diaz when I film with her on thurs.. :) No.. it is more personal.. thank you for writing.. would really like to talk about this, but I can put some stuff down by email first if you want.
They then seemingly organise a phone call. On Thursday 25 October, Krauss emails Epstein, saying:
ok.. we haven’t talked more about this.. but on spec I emailed the vice chancellor to see if they were interested in dealing.. they are.. would love to talk.. was just with Cameron Diaz in my hotel room here in L.A. so there!
He forwards along correspondence between Nancy Dahl-Tacconi (then working in Canberra, Australia as a department head in the federal environmental agency), him, and the Otago University administration, discussing plans to open an “institute” that would involve Krauss paid for his “salary, research and outreach program” and Dahl-Tacconi being a “strategic research development person to help improve [Otago’s] research competitiveness, evaluate programming and build partnerships”. However, plans had come unstuck due to the squeeze exerted on universities during the GFC and Key years, with Otago indicating the institute would most likely be canned.
Krauss responds saying he was “shocked and dismayed”, complaining that Dahl was already looking at school options and they were planning to visit the next month. Krauss instead proposes that a private foundation might be interested in funding at least the first 2 years of the institute ($250k USD a year), with the university funding the institute after that. The Vice-Chancellor replies that she is “cautiously optimistic” about the arrangement, after working out “a number of fish hooks”. She discusses requesting “special permission from [Immigration New Zealand]” as Krauss is over the age of 57, and that Otago could “cost out a reasonable overhead package that could be used as ‘in kind’ matching funds for the Foundation’s contribution.”
To be clear, Krauss never identified who this mystery financier would be, and Otago included many caveats in their correspondence with the pair. Krauss tried to organise it first, then ask for permission later from his longtime patron.
2 weeks later, on 4 November 2012, Krauss sends a desperate email, one more desperate than all the others, with the subject line “email silence”.
Hi Jeffrey. I have tried to call a few times. Don’t know where you are. I leave tomorrow on a cruise to lecture and see a total eclipse.. with limited access to phone and email. Really wanted to touch base with you on a few things.
He asks about Epstein meeting with the Origins Project’s Strategic Planning Team, and then:
2. I have’t heard from you regarding New Zealand. I have asked Otago for specifics of what they want to arrange re position, support etc, and what they would need for the first year and then a commitment that they would cover this in following years. I don’t know where you are on this, and have gotten conflicting signals. I understand if you are not interested--there is no reason you should be I guess, except to help stabilize my life and work--but I need to know rather than wonder, and I suppose we need to talk about it to find that out. I have no idea what Nancy and I will do if this falls through, and what I will do. We had been planning on doing a move there for her and buying a place there early in the new year. The uncertainty is taking a huge toll right now with great stress for both of us. She wants to leave Canberra next year no matter what, and whether shell move for a job, or for a location will be determined in the next month or so based on whether Dunedin opportunities fall through. As far as my work goes, if we don’t finalize things before the end of the year, I have no idea what I will do after that.
Epstein replies curtly: “re origins . if you want of course i will, „ re new zealand„ I can’t get behind it.”
Krauss replies:
... re New Zealand.. pity.. I had hoped I could convince you it would be win-win--- a great place to have a retreat once a year or so with a bunch of interesting people to explore interesting questions, and figured I might even convince you that the strategic research programs that Nancy would foster there would also be worthwhile... or at least worth the $250K or so investment from you on spec.. Seemed the only logistically workable option for the near term for us.
As far as I know so far, the above exchanges are the closest that Epstein ever got to visiting or interacting directly with New Zealand. While there are still a lot more files to sift through (and things we will never see), New Zealand did not seem too high on Epstein’s list of interests. There are certainly many tangents and connections, including the New Zealand couple who managed the Zorro Ranch, Little St. James, and Palm Beach properties up until his death; the New Zealand-Filipino yacht worker couple who were seemingly caught up in the Little St. James raids, or discussions about paying Auckland University professor Brian Boyd to write a book on Lolita, among a few others. But even compared to Australia, there is nothing so far close to how larger countries and their elite were discussed in the files.
However, Krauss’s interactions with Epstein point to an interesting trend. Krauss began coming under fire for his relationship with Epstein in 2011, and soon after that in 2013, allegations of sexual harassment. In 2017, when a BuzzFeed News reporter approached Krauss to comment on a forthcoming expose on his conduct, he emailed Epstein for advice on drafting his public statement.
When Krauss emails Epstein in 2012 “you saved my life once, and I may need a different sort of life-saving.. but one that I want to be win-win...”, and then uses the same language later to describe the Otago institute (”a win-win--- a great place to have a retreat once a year or so with a bunch of interesting people to explore interesting questions”), he certainly seems to be asking Epstein to helping him set up a little node in New Zealand, one that would be mutually beneficial to both of them.
This was something that Epstein did regularly over his “career” for his associates, funding their pet projects, make-work jobs, and vaguely-defined institutes. Krauss was trying to get Epstein to use his influence and money to set up another one of these in New Zealand. Krauss would have been far away from the fallout of a seemingly ugly divorce and allegations that were catching up to him, landing a breezy job for him and his assistant-turned-wife. It also would have been like many of the other foundations, institutes, companies, and assorted ventures that Epstein had a silent hand in, a little point of contact and influence for him to exert his will through. Located in a university town at the bottom of the world, with its own long history of organised crime and child sex rings.
Compared to now, Krauss was a pioneer. Over the rest of the 2010s and into the 2020s, many more elites and celebrities have flocked to “bolthole” New Zealand (as a friend once put it to me, “a little wet Israel”), incentivised by a number of factors. Many of them have their own unsavoury past, as previously covered on Exit From Affco. However, Epstein personally didn’t seem that interested in New Zealand.
Maybe it’s because Epstein was from an older generation, and wasn’t concerned about the end of days in the same way his associate Peter Thiel is, who is hoping to ride out the impending chaos in his little own Lord of the Rings fantasyland. Nor did he feel the need to escape the prying eye of the metropole to get away with his crimes, as Epstein was then residing in the largest single residence in Manhattan. Maybe he thought New Zealand was a rainy little backwater filled with pudgy colonial goyim.
But again, escaping to Aotearoa is a route that Thiel and many others have taken. While John Key was relatively subtle about implementing it, going as far to make Thiel’s citizenship secret for 5 years, the current coalition is throwing the doors open, now offering investor visas where you can drop $5m in exchange for residency. And considering how light they’re currently going on “prominent New Zealanders”, do you think they’re going to touch the “international wealth creators”?
This was a quick one that I wanted to get out on what I’ve found so far digging through the files. Most other threads will take some time, like the managers Brice and Karen Gordon, as that seems like a very knotted web to untangle (”Brice Gordon” shows up 11,333 times). Depending on interest, we might cover some more Epstein then return to regularly scheduled programming. This latest dump has also provided a breakthrough for another long-term research project of mine, which should be coming in the next while.
I also wanted to say thank you to my readers, I hope you’ve been enjoying Exit From Affco as much as I enjoy putting it together for you. An extra special thanks to those who have decided to become a paid subscriber, as you fund a little habit of mine: hoovering up out of print/out there New Zealand non-fiction books. New Zealand has always been a relatively small consumer market, with an even smaller book market, many defunct publishers, and a national archive that has given up on digitising their collections, so I’ve been trying to clean out what I can find in 2nd-hand stores (and elsewhere), especially over summer travels. Right now is a great time to buy 2nd-hand books, for some reason. Before you ask, no, I don’t know what demographic trends are.
Above is some of what I’ve been able to acquire over the past few months. As I go deeper into New Zealand research, I realise more how limited and obscure some of the historiography can get, especially in the fields that I’m interested in, and have started to try build up a wide-ranging physical collection. And as I’m seeing more and more repositories or libraries shutter, I’m realising how crucial that is.
But again, thank you to those who have reading over the past while. I have a more retrospective post planned for the 6 month anniversary of Exit From Affco coming in a few weeks, but I’m grateful that these stories about an odd little place in the bottom of the South Pacific are finding an audience (including some senior journalists and a sitting MP or two).
Mā te wā,
– Smith K. Stead
I'm glad you got the Seymour book. Could teach you lefties a thing or two.